Photoman (Photographer)

yes if you ever want to use those shots for anytime of advertising or web use etc. They get copies of the pictures you get a model release.

phocalpoint (Photographer)

ah thanks! I was reading somewhere that if i publish their photos online, and some pervert takes these photos and puts them up on adult sites, the model release will protect me from things like that.. how does it protect me?

Photoman (Photographer)

if you don't have a release and you have a person's photo on your website they can make you take it off. Same for advertising of any sort. You should watermark you work if you are concerned about someone taking your images from your website.

tonyfield (Photographer)

The function of a model release should be to protect the photographer and model. Generally speaking, it is wise to use model releases for all TFP work. For this, the release should protect both the model and photographer. In essence, the release should say that neither the model nor photographer can use the images for any commercial use without consent. The images are to be used only for portfolio or art purposes.

There are many variations of the release on the web. Some give great power to the photographer and little to the model - in the context of TFP work, this is inappropriate IMHO. Commercial releases are another story - and the model is compensated in other ways. If a TFP model signs a commercial release, she has rocks in her head - unless compensated.

carmina (Photographer)

The standard release (which is a commercial release - there is no such thing as a TFP release - its called copyright) allows the photographer to use the images in any way they please, in exchange for 'valuable consideration'. Now, some people consider doing the shoot and giving the model images payment enough. Your mileage may vary. To my knowledge, there aren't a lot of local photographers who are willing to pay models, so I wonder what their 'valuable consideration for signing the release' would consist of?

Its in a models best interest not to sign anything. Even if a model doesn't sign though, the photographer still has copyright, and can do whatever they want with them short of commercial sale.

I'ts in a photographers interest to have them sign everytime. All the doors are left open to you, and maybe when you get famous one day, and die of a heroin overdose, your family will legally be able to leverage the hell out of your 'early work'.

But in all seriousness, beginners tfp stuff probably doesn't have a tonne of value. Releases may be more headaches and roadblocks then they are worth, considering that the images aren't going anywhere except your MR/MM/FB/Flickr ports.

Wall of text! OMG!

Here is what my release looks like: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/392422/adultmodelrelease.pdf

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Last edited by carmina 11 months, 1 week ago

carmina (Photographer)

"and some pervert takes these photos and puts them up on adult sites, the model release will protect me from things like that.. how does it protect me?"

Good question, it doesn't protect anyone from having anything stolen, its simply the model releasing her likeness to be sold/used in any way the photographer sees fit. I can tell you that unless you are shooting hardcore porn no one will take your images and post them on an adult site. Without adult content, its a non issue.

There are always going to be stealers on the internet, you can only deal with them on a 1 by 1 basis, if you are ever aware of the theft.

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Last edited by carmina 11 months, 1 week ago

BeatrixMae (Model)

From a model point of view, whether I sign a release or not I still have no rights over the images unless I pay

Edit: sorry i so say no "Copyright" rights..

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Last edited by BeatrixMae 11 months, 1 week ago

tonyfield (Photographer)

@ BeatrixMae: Actually, you still have "moral rights" that can be exercised.

carmina (Photographer)

@ Beatrix.... yes, you have the right to use the images in your book or on the intrawebs. :)

@ Tony, what moral rights does the subject in the image have?

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Last edited by carmina 11 months, 1 week ago

phocalpoint (Photographer)

I guess it totally depends on what the fine print says. I've read some release forms saying that models cannot in any way shape or form edit the image except resize it. In other release forms, it doesn't mention anything about the model not being able to alter the image..

In Beatrix's case, her release form might dictate that she cannot do anything to the photo unless she pays for it...

carmina (Photographer)

Its the law that they can't change your images. And most of the time they don't know that, but thats ok, because its your job to tell them. I usually tell them in an email after they have altered the work (if they have cropped or altered it). Sending hi-res images will only encourage them to try out their photoshop talents, by sending web sized sharpened images, they won't have to even resize them. Plug and play.

Making the release longer and more convoluted just frightens models, and unless you are a lawyer, it'll be full of holes anyways.

In life, some things are better said on paper, and other things with words. Telling a model what she is allowed to do with the images you give her is better left with words, in person, at the shoot.

carmina (Photographer)

And... even if Beatrix did pay for the image and owns all the rights to it, I still have moral rights.

" "Moral" rights are also protected under Canadian copyright law. Moral rights include the author's right to be associated with the work by name, or pseudonym and the right to remain anonymous, and include the author's right to the integrity of the work (that is, the author's right to stop the work from being distorted, mutilated or modified, to the prejudice of the author's honour or reputation, or from being used in association with a product, service, cause or institution).

Moral rights remain with the author of a work, even where the work, or the copyright in the work, has been sold or assigned"

I would suggest reading this entire document and understanding it. > http://users.trytel.com/~pbkerr/copyright.html It doesn't get into the nitty gritty of photographers (when we are paid in Canada we get screwed) but the overall ideas there are consistent with reality.

A couple years ago, after we both had a bad run of troublesome models, a friend of mine and I swapped back and forth a sort of 'terms and conditions' document. Things like ' you are not allowed to bring your boyfriend, you are not allowed to photoshop the pictures I give you, you may not stop emailing randomly, blah blah blah. You get the idea.

Once we got done, we swore to each other that we would send it out to new models when they contacted us, and if they don't like it, then whew! We dodged a bullet. Neither of us did though. The reality is, no one wants to shoot with a dictator, and if you come across as a hardass, it puts they whole shoot into a different light, one of a business transaction, which makes it harder to get anything good out the the model. All they are thinking is, what do I get? They better not be late getting *my* pictures to me. Even if you send such a hardcore document, don't bet on them reading or understanding it. All you can do is deal with trainwrecks as they come up.

Speaking of, hope you read all that ;)

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Last edited by carmina 11 months, 1 week ago

BeatrixMae (Model)

Yes Carmina basically said what i was trying to say.

tonyfield (Photographer)

The model's moral rights are generally centered around the degree to which image manipulation may render the model in an inappropriate way that the model disagrees with. This could be the editing of the body shape, or other representations.

The model also has privacy rights (which vary from province to province) and allows the individual's ability to control the use or distribution of his or her image.

As far as I can figure out, a TF* model release should allow the artistic processing of the image of the model in a manner determined by the photographer and should also define the areas of image distribution that the model an photographer will possibly distribute the image. It should also clearly state that commercial use of the images must be negotiated when the need manifests itself.

The October and September 2003 issues of Photo Life have a pretty good summary of the Canadian Copyright legislation as it applies to photographers and models. The articles were written by Daniel Urbas of Woods & Partners (PQ)

From what I have heard in various media reports in Canada, if there is any litigation between the model and photographer, the courts have a tendency to side with the model rather than the photographer - unless the photographer is very clearly in the right.

carmina (Photographer)

My first couple thoughts to your post Tony:

1) Lets see this fabled release! Does it exist, or is it a utopian fantasy? Has it been looked at by a lawyer?

2) I would feel ill at ease giving an under-educated, potentially nightmare/headcase model that much power over what I can/can't do with my pictures/property. Why would you volunteer to have less rights over your property, or leave the door open to legal issues around what can be seen and where? You seem to think that fighting for the rights of models (at the expense of your own creative freedom) is preferable. And it is, for them. Not for you.

Its not 'fair' if some girl is allowed to invoke your contract and pull every single image you took of her because of sudden 'privacy' concerns.

Instead of giving in to what you think they want/deserve, why not just have a release that is airtight on your end, and then do the right thing as a human being if a negative situation rears its head? You never know who's cousin is a lawyer, and leaving such a loaded document out in the world will bite you in the ass sooner or later.

phocalpoint (Photographer)

Hey guys,

I was planning on using this before. I think it is detailed enough and understandable, but it's a little wordy don't you think?

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This document constitutes a binding contract between the Model and the Photographer regulating the ownership and use of photographs and derivative works based thereupon (collectively hereafter the "Photos") taken by Photographer of Model for all lawful purposes, subject to the terms and conditions described below.

The basis for this contract is a non-commercial arrangement where Model in the interest of gaining modeling experience, agrees that in exchange of modeling time, he/she shall receive processed non- watermarked photographs delivered to Model by Photographer in digital format by CD or as digital files sent through by E-Mail.

Delivery shall take place in a timely manner and under any circumstance no longer than 30 days after the date this contract is signed by Photographer. This delivery constitutes the whole obligation of Photographer towards Model.

Model agrees that copyright, moral rights, and all other intellectual property rights to the Photos belongs to Photographer and/or his or her heirs, licensees or assigns, with full right of lawful disposition in any manner.

Model agrees that, while he/she may use the Photos for purposes related to the promotion of Model's modeling business, including, but not limited to: advertising, portfolios, composite cards, exhibitions, contests, and promotional web sites, Model will not sell or otherwise transfer publication rights to any of the Photos without Photographer's prior consent.

Likewise, Photographer agrees that while he/she may use the Photos for purposes related to the promotion of Photographer's photography business, including, but not limited to: advertising, portfolios, composite cards, exhibitions, contests, and promotional web sites, Photographer will not sell or otherwise transfer publication rights to any of the Photos except with Model's prior consent.

Model understands that Photographer has the moral right to be identified as the author of the Photos when copies of the Photos are presented to the public, and shall communicate this understanding to publishers, designers and other third parties that act on Model's behalf to create presentation material using the Photos.

Model releases and agrees to hold Photographer and/or his or her heirs, licensees or assigns, harmless from any claim or liability in connection with the publication or use of these images in any manner or form whatsoever, unless it can be clearly shown that the foregoing was maliciously caused, and produced, and published solely for the purpose of subjecting Model to conspicuous ridicule, scandal, reproach, scorn, and indignity.

Model hereby affirms that all poses, positions and situations enacted in the Photos covered in this release were entered into without force, coercion, or threat whatsoever, and were posed freely by Model with Model's full consent. Model further agrees to hold blameless and free of all accusation of such force or coercion Photographer, his legal representatives, assigns, and those acting under his permission.

Both Model and Photographer affirms to have read the foregoing prior to its execution and agree to the contents thereof.

carmina (Photographer)

Regarding advertising:

Do you know how much it costs for traditional advertising? If the model can afford billboards and bus stops, you should be compensated. I would strike advertising use. That is a commercial use, over and above promo.

"entered into without force, coercion, or threat whatsoever, and were posed freely by Model with Model's full consent" its one thing to say this on paper, but in court, it would NEVER hold up. Never in a million years.

Have a lawyer look at this. Contracts generally are wordy. (Most) models will not understand a whit of what is written there, and if they don't understand what they are signing, you might as well set it on fire. Again, ask a lawyer for his opinion. Its all playtime on paper until someone takes your ass to court.

People on the internet are not who you should be checking your contract against.

I say again, people on the internet are not authorities on any legal matter, such as a binding contract.

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Last edited by carmina 11 months, 6 days ago

tonyfield (Photographer)

The release I use is very similar to that by phocalpoint. However, I did leave in the quantity and size of images to be delivered to the model (which was in the original draft of this contract) and did add an "artistic editing as determined by the photographer" phrase.

If the model does create the billboard, the would require some sort of "full res" file - I limit the pixel count of the jpg files to 1200x1200 which generally means that the images are not useful for print reproduction. If the model needs larger images, they will be provided after usage has been determined.

Stevilee (Model)

LOL!! Wow Carmina!! You sure think "Most" Models are Dimwitted, Don't you?! LOL!! As for Myself, Not speaking for "Most" other Model's, I read all releases carefully before I sign. But being part of the professional sect and Commercial sect of Modeling before... That was a Very Important part of the business. I never stepped in front of a camera Unless I knew exactly what I was getting Myself into and what I was getting out of it as well. Now I am doing it mostly for the fun of it and could really care less, but that part of my life has never worn off. I still read my releases carefully and understand them, and if the photographer has written it in Latin... I WILL ask for a Translator!Ha ha!! Or I won't sign it ... Period. Which is just common sense. I mean seriously, would you sign something, you don't fully understand, until it is explained to you fully? And If a Model does sign things blindly without reading what they are signing, Or Not understanding what they are signing, then they are dimwitted!! And they deserve what they get! Simple as that. ;) It only takes a minute or two of someones time to read it, and it doesn't make you look like an idiot to ask questions about something you don't understand. It just my opinion, anyways.

InfectiousHumanWaste (Model)

@Carmina: I made a tri-pictic of your images for my portfolio. You want taken down? Does no editing of your images include using it as avatars?

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Last edited by InfectiousHumanWaste 10 months, 2 weeks ago